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Ver Versão Completa : Remousu's Anti-British Guide (estratégia)



SuperSoca
05/10/2009, 11:30
Introduction

There are three goals in this strategy:

Deprive the British player of CPs
Tech to T4 as quickly as possible
Conserving resources and munitions which are necessary in the endgame

This is accomplished based on several factors:

Prevent taking casualties while dealing as many as possible: The MG42 holds back British infantry, while the Snipers deal the casualties.
No Volks, no Infantry Vet, and only a single Grenadier. Reliance on Snipers/MG42 means you don't need Infantry Veterancy (and Support Vet 1 is cheap).
RHS Terror, in particular the V1, can provide shock value by wiping out key British Defensive locations in an instant. Exploit that breach using Tier 4 units: Panther x2 + Ostwind.


Early Game Build Order

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Only if necessary:
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Early Game Tasks


The very first thing you need to do when the game finishes loading is to start your Wehrmacht Quarters (WQ) with your Pioneer. Then hit F1 and quickly start two P
ioneers using the hotkey, P. As they finish, shift-queue your new Pioneers to start capping the rest of the map (Don't have them join your first Pioneer in constructing the WQ.). Then, once your first Pioneer finishes building, have him cap the territories close to your base. You should have 180-190 Manpower once your WQ is done, so immediately spend that to start your first Bike.

In the early game, you have several goals:

Figure out where the British Player is trying to set himself up. Keep an eye open for anywhere he's capping significantly.
Cap as much territory as possible with your Pioneers. Find a section of the map with decent fuel income, and use your troops to hold it. The British player is more powerful early on, so pick the area of the map that the British player isn't dominantly active in.
Finish out the build order above, and get to T2 ASAP after rounding out your fighting force (Bike x2, MG x2, Sniper).

Unit guide

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Pioneers are your main capping force throughout the early game. Its crucial that you don't get them killed early on--they will be busy. If your Bikes are low in health, immediately send one to repair (Keeping your Bikes at full health is a very high priority.). Get one Flamer once you hit 50 munitions, but two of your Pioneers will have the main job of capping and keeping your bikes healthy. In certain emergencies (losing your Sniper(s) being a big one) I upgrade my other two Pioneers to flamers as well, but generally, they won't be doing much fighting.

Flamers need to be kept alive, so don't send them rushing into enemy territory. Since you are only getting one, it will be used relatively conservatively--use it to flush out Trenches, burn out garrisoned Tommies, and to burn down mortar pits.


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The Bike(s) are scouts, not fighters. As soon as your first Bike(s) finish send them off to scout out where the British player is sending his units. Usually the British Lieutenant will be capping some area of the map really close to the Brit player's base, so find it, and kill it or force it to retreat. Generally, don't engage Tommies with it, because your bike won't deal them all that much damage, and early on, you don't want your Pioneers to have to take the time to repair them. They will have two primary duties

Firstly Bikes scout for your Sniper(s). Using the long visual range of the Bike, you will be able to maximize your Sniper(s) range. Keep the Bike just within visual range of the enemy infantry, but far enough away so that it doesn't get shot at, and have your Sniper let loose.
Bikes also provide defense against Bren Carriers. Bikes do considerable damage against Bren Carriers. When the MG42s are doing a lot to keep the British Infantry at bay, the British player will frequently try to rush a Bren Carrier behind the MG. If they do, your Bike should immediately focus fire on the Bren. Your Bikes are deterrent to aggressive moves by the Bren. Keep your Bikes at top health. If your bikes are at 50% health, they won't provide any defense against Brens, because they will be quickly killed.

If a Bren Carrier does attack you, and you quickly do damage to it, the Brit player will try to pull his Bren out. Manuever your bike so it blocks the path the Bren carrier is trying to take. This can give your MG and your other bike 2-3 more seconds to shoot at the Bren carrier before it can retreat, which can make the difference between a Bren carrier at 10% health, and a dead one.
Lastly, Bikes Harass emplacement construction. If a British player is trying to build an emplacement where you don't want it, send in your Bikes to attack the building that's under construction (actually right-click on the construction site, or your Bikes may shoot at something else, or the Tommies doing the constructing). Bikes do very good damage vs. Buildings under construction.


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The MG42s are pivotal to this strategy. MG42s are the cost-effective tool that keeps you alive long enough to see T4. You will need 2--One is used forward, another more towards the rear to prevent flanking. By keeping one more toward the rear, if your opponent charges 1-2 Bren carriers forward to try and bumrush your front MG, he will find his Bren Carrier being chewn up by two bikes and an MG42, which will quickly demolish both. The MG42s allows you to keep British Recon Squads far enough away that the Sniper can shoot at them without worrying about a counter-snipe.



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The Sniper(s) are what actually deal damage to your enemy. Tommies have a high reinforcement cost at 35 a pop, so each shot that a sniper makes whittles down your opponent's manpower. Don't wander your Sniper off alone--they are very vulnerable unless protected by an MG42.

A Sniper's sight range isn't that far, so use a Bike's long sight range to spot enemy infantry for it. Recon Squads will try and charge the sniper to counter snipe--so pull it back towards your MG if you see an approaching Recon squad. Use its cloaking ability to prevent a Bren Carrier from gunning it down--keep it well protected by the Bikes and MGs. A well micro'd sniper can rack up 20-30 kills in the course of a game easily, and the British player doesn't really have a true early counter for it.

Remember; discretion is the better part of valor when it comes to Snipers. One Tommy is barely worth 1/10th the price of the Sniper. Retreat the Sniper if it's in any significant risk. Keeping the Snipers alive for the end-game is really important, if you don't want to see your Panthers getting raped while buttoned down by Bren Tommies.


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The Volksgrenadiers are really an emergency fix if something goes wrong, more than a unit you want to get in its own right. In probably 80-90% of games, they prove unnecessary. If one of your MG42s are decrewed, or a PaK is decrewed, and you need someone to crew it, get one. Generally, avoid getting one for any other purpose.

One other situation where Volks make sense is if your opponent goes Double-Bren--in that case, replace the sniper with a Volks, and build a sniper after your first PaK later in the build order. Volks do adequate damage vs. Brens on the defensive, and once you hit T2, Faust will take off about 30~40% of the Bren's health. Unlike in past patches, the Faust alone won't allow you to survive Bren Carrier assaults, but its a powerful complement to MG/Bike defenses.


RHS Terror Doctrine


In this strategy, you will go for RHS Terror 90% of the time. If the British player doesn't ever build any emplacements, then its not nearly as useful. However, most Brit players build a 17lbs Emplacement for AT support at some point in the game. These super-ranged support weapons are frequently a cornerstone in the British player's defenses. Additionally, Mortar Pits are another frequently used support weapon in the British arsenal as well. Taking these (along with units near them) is the V1's responsibility, and can instantly and radically alter the power balance in an area very quickly. Spend your first 3 CPs getting firestorm, and only if you know for a fact the Brit player lacks any troublesome emplacements should you go down the LHS.


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I generally don't use Inspired Assault, unless the perfect opportunity presents itself: The increased ROF for your snipers is pretty nice, but the ability is pretty pricey at 50 Munitions, and the increased received accuracy makes your MGs far more vulnerable. That said, if you're trying to deal as much damage as possible, or force a quick retreat, it may be worth it. But rarely will this be utilized. For example, you may use this ability if you want your snipers to quickly take out a Tommy buttoning your panther.

See below for When/How to use Firestorm and V1


Early Game Tactical Details


In the early game, you will likely be seeing a mix of Tommy squads supported by Bren Carriers. Generally speaking, you won't be ready to take on your opponent till you have your Sniper out in the build order. Until then, you'll have to rely more on the pinning ability of the MG to scare away Tommies, and use your Bikes to deal damage. But remember that until you're ready, discretion is the better part of valor. MGs are expensive to reinforce, and losing an MG early to a Tommy squad can be crippling. Retreat if the situation looks at all against your favor, and just rely on your 3 Pioneers to outcap the slow moving Tommies. Use your bikes to prevent the Lieutenant from being used a much of a capper, and force the Tommies to stick together to slow down their development.

Watch out for Tommies building aggressive emplacements. Bikes do excellent damage to buildings under construction--send them in if they're constructing a Bofors or Mortar pit in a super-aggresive position which puts you at grave risk. If you can still just cap in a separate direction, and you can't hold it back, you can ignore it. But watch out for something which could shoot into your base.

If they do build one, but it's unsupported, rush it with a Flamer or Shreck equipped Grenadier supported by an MG and Sniper, or Shoot it with a PaK (scouted by a Sniper) until destroyed.

How to fight a Bren Carrier
In this patch, MGs do a good amount of damage against Bren Carriers. Make use of this. Bren Carriers are frequently used as the British's primary answer to MGs, as they use their mobility to flank MGs. Stagger your MGs so one if covering the first--an MG and 2 Bikes firing at a Bren Carrier will quickly destroy Bren Carriers. If they carry Tommies into your position, turn your MGs so they cover each other, and 2 MGs + sniper will quickly pin then force a retreat by aggressive Tommies.

British Infantry Blob tactics
Make sure to keep your MGs in good position to prevent flanking attacks. Keep your sniper back to prevent countersnipe by recon squads. Be aggressive with your MG micro--keep them moving to respond to threats, and keep your Sniper shooting.

Sim City
If the British player hangs back, starts spamming MG pits, supported by Bofors, Mortar pits, and 17lbers, great! The big danger in this strategy is not surviving to your first Panther & Ostwind, so if the British player is playing conservatively, and relying on emplacements, its time to rejoice. Just make sure the emplacements don't get close enough to your base to start burning it down--if the british start to get too close, send in your Bikes while the emplacement is under construction. More on demolishing defensive hardpoints later.

Early game, the one emplacement that will cause you more grief than any other is the Mortar Pit. Obviously, the best way to prevent it from doing you damage is to push your opponent far enough back early, that it can't hit the crucial cutoffs or fuel point that you're trying to defend. If the position is lightly defended, flank it, and burn it to the ground ASAP. If the British player does manage to build it, pull back as far as possible out of the range of the mortar, while still defending your key areas. Ff that forces you back so far the British player can take your territory at will, that likely means another area is overly lightly defended--attack in a different direction.


Mid Game


Tier 2


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Once you hit Tier 2, you've entered the midgame phase in this strategy. The good news is you survived this far. The bad news is that this is far and away the most dangerous phase of the game for the Wehrmacht player in this strategy. Probably 80% of the games are lost using this strategy in the midgame phase. Your objectives in this phase of the game:

Maintain control of a key fuel sector to allow yourself to keep teching
Survive without taking too many casualties
Tech to T4 ASAP

Doing this requires some anticipation and reactions. Roughly speaking, you are going to have to focus either on facing a major armor based force, or major infantry based forces. This means after you build the Krieg Barracks, which should immediately start building a PaK, your next units will be one of two build orders:


vs Stuart or Sim City or Cromwells/Churchills (the AT Focus BO)
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If you see a Stuart light tank, and your 2nd PaK isn't out yet, you could be in a world of hurt. Retreat any units the Stuarts encounter. Keep your PaK in your base, and backed up against a building. On occasion you will have to retreat every unit in the field back to your base against an early Stuart. Once you have your Grenadier and 2 PaKs, you'll be ready to counter attack, but a single PaK is easy circle-strafe material, so wait until you're ready if you need to counter attack. Do not retreat your snipers, instead put them on hold fire and move them (cloaked, ofc) to the edge of the map or other inconspicuous area.

If the Stuart does make it into your base don't panic. Hopefully, your Ninja-PaK hit it at least once on the way in, so it's at about 60-70% health. Build a Volks unit (if you don't already have one ASAP) to threaten it with a Faust, or to recrew your PaK if it was killed. Keep building your 2nd PaK, and garrison your units in buildings where they are safer from the Stuart and mostly immune to Cannister Shot. If you can drive it off or kill the the 1st Stuart without taking too many casualties, you've made it through the toughest point in the game.

If any of your MGs were decrewed, recrew them with a Volks unit. Same goes for PaKs.

Once you are established, keep your PaKs spaced out overlapping each other to prevent the front one from being flanked. Keep them protected behind the MG42, and don't bunch them up, in case your opponent built a 25lber and is preparing to artillery your PaKs.


vs British Infantry Blobbers or Commandoes (the AI Focus BO)
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If you are seeing exclusively infantry units, your opponent is most likely hoping for Commandos and the sheer weight of the British infantry to carry the day. Tactically, what you do is going to be pretty much the same as in the early game, except easier because your PaK is going to make the Bren carrier ineffective. Keep your sniper safe using fire suppression from your MG42s, and keep your snipers shooting.

Commandos are a lot less scary now that the Glider doesn't kill everything it lands on (If you didn't know that, rejoice now.). 2 MGs covering each other will make it easier to suppress incoming Commandos. Furthermore, 2 Vet 1 Snipers will tear thorugh a Commando Squad very quickly--just don't let the Commandos close enough to shoot at them. If you need to, simply retreat, then counter attack the British. If the Commandos use smoke to get passed your MGs, uncloak your Snipers, then click behind your 2nd MG for better protection. Generally the invisibility will wear off as the Commandos get behind the 1st MG, only to get suppressed by the 2nd MG behind it, as your Snipers have a field day.


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In a pinch, Firestorm is a potent anti-infantry weapon. And if the opponent has a pesky emplacement surrounded by infantry, it is an effective tool to damage the emplacement while forcing your opponent to suffer huge losses or to retreat his infantry. If you have your opponent's infantry pressed close to his HQ Truck, Firestorming his units can be devastating.

Also, if you get unexpectedly flanked, don't be afraid to use firestorm on the main force (which will kill them or force them to retreat), then turn your MGs on whatever troops flanked your position.

Note
If, for either build order, you have extra manpower lying around, but not enough fuel to tech to the next stage, shore up your AT or AI force, which ever you didn't build up. I.e., build a 2nd Sniper if you went for AT strength, build an extra PaK if you went for AI. If you still have more manpower to burn, OP a fuel. Since you aren't spending virtually any fuel on Vet, its frequently unnecessary to OP fuel, so that's more of a luxury than its anything else. But nn Semois, due to its low-fuel nature, frequently requires an OP on the medium fuel next to your base. Squeeze that into your build order right after you finish your string listed for AT or AI focus.



Late Game
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If you've survived this far without significant losses, congrats. Now things get fun, because you have the upper hand. As soon as you get to T4, start building your Panzer Command. Generally, build a Panther first, because armor tends to provide more of a threat against this strategy than infantry does, but if you're having serious problems vs. an infantry based force, building an Ostwind first is a good idea.

One situation where an Ostwind is almost definitely called for is if your opponent called in a Commando unit during the mid-game. One Commando unit can be driven away by two Snipers and MGs, but any more than that, and they will pose a serious threat to your forces. Getting out an Ostwind as promptly as possible is a necessity. Use your Ostwind defensively, to keep your PaKs safe from a Commando assault until you get your Panther out.

As needed

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Late Game Tactical Details


Frequently, during a game, the British player will position his defenses to aligned towards one general direction. That direction is almost always way from where ever his base used to be. The reason is simple: since his base MGs kept you away during most of the, he would rely on that defensive position and neglect to build up his defenses in that direction.

This means that nine out of ten times when you go on the offensive, the best place to start is to attack the British initial starting position. Sneak your Sniper forwards for spotting, then have your PaKs & Panther blast the Bunkers into oblivion. In the rare ocassion that the British player built a 17lber in the base, use your PaKs to remove it as well--if that's impossible due to other defense, nuke it with your V1.


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The V1 is your ultimate anti-emplacement weapon. It has a extremely long recharge time (480 seconds or 8 minutes), so use it wisely, and as often as possible. Generally, use it to quickly wipe out the opposing player's 17lber, which is frequently defending a key point in his base. Take advantage of the shock value, and the wide radius of the V1's explosion. Sneak your cloaked Sniper forwards, and send in the V1. Frequently, you can take your opponent utterly by surprise.

You want to maximize the shock value of especially your first V1--it will instantly knock out any emplacement and units in its immediate radius and to top it off, it doesn't put down red smoke to signal where it will land. It takes awhile though, so 17lbers are a prime target, because knocking it out frequently means your Ostwind/Panther will have free range in that area.

Once you move past their base area, you frequently arrive at the rear of the British defensive position. Use Firestorm to weaken any other key British AT defenses, and send in your two Vet 3 Panthers to wipe out any tanks in your path. You should build a second Sniper if you haven't already done so to support your attack: prioritize killing any buttoning Bren Gun equipped Tommies, and remember not to neglect protecting your Snipers/PaKs with your MGs. Have you PaKs provide fire support from the rear, making use of their long range.

Late Game vs. Infantry Blob
If there are still a good number of British Infantry left, don't neglect to make use of your main AI weapon: Snipers. Make sure to have two active, and protect them from being rushed with an MG. Let them tear apart any pesky Tommy Squads.

Late Game vs. Sim City
Use V1s to destroy the 17lbers, then follow up with Panthers and Ostwinds from the rear. Follow up furtherly with infantry and PaK support.

Late Game vs. Cromwells/Fireflies
Make sure to keep your PaKs rolling forwards, but you'll find that Panthers can easily tear up any British Tank units.

If necessary, send in the King Tiger to wipe up the remains of the British player.

Good luck.

http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes/portals.php?show=page&name=how-to-beat-brits-with-wehrmancht

itaperuna_coh
05/10/2009, 17:30
exatamente o que eu faço...só no lugar das bikes eu vou volks...gosto mais...e tenho a chance de finalizar com os BC

Matanza
05/10/2009, 20:19
Eu li isso lá no GR e achei interessante e diferente, mas quando fui ver os comentários... todo mundo meteu pau nessa strat.

Vejam os comentários lá.

Showtaro
05/10/2009, 22:56
Eu li isso lá no GR e achei interessante e diferente, mas quando fui ver os comentários... todo mundo meteu pau nessa strat.

Vejam os comentários lá.

É agora que vc falou fiquei curioso e fui lá ver, o 12azor pisou e deu uma mijadinha no cara ainda, xingando a strat dele falando que ela só presta contra noobs, e que os replays dele só foram contra gente com ratio de win menor que 50%.
Por fim disse que não precisa dessa strat, é só usar o piospam ou gren vet 3 spam e que taí uma strat anti brit!

Concordo com o itaperuna de que é melhor ir pra volks, motoca deixa o cara muito limitado, sem força de infantaria...

Comments da Strat http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=540148&st=0

lololololololol

BobCuspe
05/10/2009, 23:29
Eu tentei ler essa bagaça duas vezes. Na primeira, assim que abri o tópico minha mulher me pediu pra fazer uma coisa. não cheguei nem a terminar o texto inicial. Depois que voltei ao fórum ela tava quebrando o cacete no telefone e eu não consegui prestar atenção no texto. Mas logo de cara achei que o volks ia demorar muito a sair...

mas vou olhar direito. talvez quando a mulher se acalmar e for dormir!

frasson
05/10/2009, 23:56
Acho ela muito arriscada.

Chacineiro
09/04/2010, 14:41
5x Pio, tech T2, spam de gren vet 3 + 2 paks gg.

itaperuna_coh
15/04/2010, 11:28
5x Pio, tech T2, spam de gren vet 3 + 2 paks gg.

chacina, uma dica...não faz pak...mete um shreck na mão de cada green vet e vai morteiro...

Chacineiro
15/04/2010, 15:37
chacina, uma dica...não faz pak...mete um shreck na mão de cada green vet e vai morteiro...

Pode crer, morteiro é uma boa contra aquelas blobs do inferno.

DualIV
24/04/2010, 12:50
O que seriam "blobs"?
Sim CIty eu sei que é aquela negada de emplancements dos britanicos.

SuperSoca
26/04/2010, 16:34
O que seriam "blobs"?
Sim CIty eu sei que é aquela negada de emplancements dos britanicos.

Agrupamento massivo de unidades. AKA: várias unidades andando bem próximas.