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SuperSoca
25/03/2010, 11:55
Olha, essa é a melhor estratégia que eu vi até agora para 2v2 dual PE:

E isso vai de acordo com um conceito que eu prego nos jogos 2v2, e que o itaperuna e eu as vezes discutimos (e fica puto comigo quando me pede pra fazer todo tipo de AT hahahah), o chuu vai entender o que estou falando.

Sempre falam da tal da sinergia, sinergia sinergia bla bla bla nos 2v2 (sinergia pode se dizer: potencializar a eficiência e interação de 2 elementos distintos produzir um efeito superior à eficiência de 2 elementos separados). A verdade é que a sinergia é importante num conceito mais MACRO, mas não micro. Ex: é importante na estratégia que um dos jogadores supra algumas fraquezas do outro. Porém ambos devem ter seus counters para cada situação, e não depender completamente do outro jogador para determinado counter, pois em determinado momento do jogo, o outro jogador pode estar com a atenção em outra coisa. E daí o jogador que ficou fazendo AT Gun, é atacado por um blob de infantaria? FUEDA!

Sinergia é importante, mas mais importante ainda é ser flexível!

Outra coisa boa a respeito da estratégia é a escolha por 3 tiers, mesmo em um 2v2, onde parece mais lógico cada um dos players fazer 2 tiers. As poucas situações que faço somente 2 tiers até o mid game de PE é se tenho muito fuel e estou lutando contra um USA que tá fazendo spam de rifle, nesse caso dá pra ir perfeitamente T1-T4 sem choro. Ou então num 2v2, com wher (dependendo do mapa), onde o wher pode fazer pak rapidamente e eu posso fazer 1 ou até 2 mortar HT (eu e o Itaperuna fizemos isso contra o CharlesDarwin e deu certo).
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Dual Panzer Elite: Paper Lighting



There are a few things one needs to understand before they attempt this strategy with their faithful doubles partner. Firstly, this is one of the most difficult team strategies to pull off and even if played flawlessly there is still potential to lose. Dual Panzer Elite isn't recommendable to any team that isn’t extremely confident in both their skills and teamwork. To build an idea of the level needed to play with this strategy, my teammate and I, watched all the games we lost together and made a list of the things we needed to improve upon. We had specialized callouts for each map and knew the Panzer Elite faction inside and out. This guide will assume you are knowledgeable with general Panzer Elite strategy and tactics, and will instead focus upon the nuances of playing a Panzer Elite 2v2 team.


http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1269404188.jpg

Before outlining the strategy or the build order, I feel like I need to give some background in order to give this strategy credibility. I have played dual Panzer Elite in 2v2 AT exclusively on the account SheNeY with my friend CIutch in patch 2.301 through 2.501. Our stats were 58 wins and 3 losses in 2.301 and 34 and 1 in patch 2.501 (Barring all remakes of our accounts). We planned on making a replay pack but that never came to fruition. Our goal was to keep our strategy from the general public because we did not want people to know its weakness or the build order. I also played dual Panzer Elite on and off with CaL1ber but we also played mixed axis in 2.400 through 2.600 and we were 54 and 8. For 2v2 PE random I was level 13 and for Panzer Elite 1v1 I was level 14 (highest position I attained was 5). We based this strategy on Dragoon's and Seki-Selu's dual Panzer Elite strategy.


Player 1: The Slayer

The slayer provides the punch to the strategy by utilizing powerful offensive and harassing forces. He will both push the enemy off his positions and constantly drain him of manpower. It is important that the slayer works around the firebase provided by the support player, using Armored Cars (ACs) and Anti-tank Half-tracks (AT-HTs) to provide devastating and direct support his partner. The build order of this player can adapt a fair amount. The person playing this role must have:

Ability to detect weaknesses in the enemy line and exploit them ruthlessly
Perfect AC micro
Good MP44 management (as in multi-directional attacks, not just blobbing)
Solid AT-HT micro and placement
Good Panzer IV Micro


T0


http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260244927.jpgx2 http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260244942.png

T1


http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-7754-1190635205.jpg http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260244936.jpg

T3


http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260244948.pnghttp://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260245000.jpg x2 http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260244972.jpg

T4


http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-106121-1229156270.jpg x2

Build additional units as needed to counter the allied team's units.


Doctrine: Tank Hunters


Get Teller Mines first; lay at least two.
Go for a Hezter if it is possible to end the game early enough or the support player cannot get Marders out fast enough.
Always try to get the Jadgpanther as quickly as possible after the Hezter by spamming mines.


Player 2: The Support
The support player will be providing units that will make up the relatively static frontline; largely Infantry Half-tracks, Panzer Grenadiers en masse, and Marders. The Slayer will provide all the specific counter units to back-up the more multi-purpose units that this player will provide. That is why the build order for the support player is far more riged than that of the main player. All of units in the build order in order to win, as well as the following skills.

Solid Macro
Good judgment and instinct
Solid defensive play
Good half-track micro
Skill at managing the frontline of battle


T0


http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260244927.jpg x2 http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-116058-1264463905.png x2 http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260244927.jpg x3 http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-116058-1264464394.png

T2


http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-106121-1229156277.jpg http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-7754-1190635139.jpg http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-116058-1264481259.png http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260244936.jpg

T3


http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260244956.jpg http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1260244952.jpg x2



Doctrine: Luftwaffe


Get one to two Luftwaffe Feldtruppen Squads fairly early and have them on 24/7 repair duty.
Next, try to obtain the 88mm FlaK 36 as soon as possible.
Wait until later for the Henschel Run and Butterfly Bombs abilities. These can be spammed later in the game using stockpiled Munitions.


Dual PE Examined and Expanded

The whole goal of this strategy is to use the teching power of Panzer Elite combined with direct counter units and multi-purpose units to crush the enemy without relying on rushing. The early game battles are essential. To win the early game, conservative play is essential, making initially only one push together to try to keep British player from truck rushing resource points. When the Infantry Half-track (abbreviated as Infantry HT) comes out and the Armored Car is being constructed, start cutting the British player off from the US player. When the Mortar Half-track and Armored Car start coming out, push the British player hard. The game should end if played well. Panzershreks and Anti-tank Half-tracks (or just AT-HTs) should clean up any early allied armor.


http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1269404197.jpg

If victory has not been achieved by this stage, pull back and form a defensive line. This defensive line should constantly be fighting at max range, trying to keep the allies from taking territory. The mid-game goal, unless victory is in sight, will be to stake out territory for the 88mm FlaK 36 (also known as simply the 88). The 88 and Jadgpanther should be enough to destroy the British and US player. If the British player is dug in too well then charge the US player’s base and destroy it instead. It’s not only easier to destroy a US player’s base, but it is actually a bigger blow to the Allied team. Thinking in two dimensions is the fatal flaw of most dual Panzer Elite teams. Remember, the Panzer Elite are far more mobile than allies and is also capable of attacking from any direction with most combat units. Panzer Elite strategy is not bound by MG42s, PaKs, or any other staple of Wehrmacht play.

However, this strategy will not work without both of these players working as described and as a team. It is impossible to have two aggressive players or two passive players and still be successful. Microphones combined with either Ventrillo or TeamSpeak are essential. Don't try to play dual Panzer Elite without them. Both players need to talk constantly, but the support played needs to keep the other player aware of where their attention is needed.

FAQ: Why three tiers?
In a discussion with players about this strategy, one question always came up. It related to the overall strategy of having each player tech into three tiers, instead of the much more seemingly natural method of having each player tech into two tiers. This short question and answer below was extracted from an interview and properly demonstrates the merits of the three tier approach.
Question:Why doesn’t the "Slayer" player get Marders after Armored Cars instead of skipping to AT-HTs? Why wouldn't the support player get the AT-HTs and Panzer 4s while the ‘Slayer’ player stay in T3?
Answer: An extended T2 is very powerful, as all the units from T2 are strong early game. When the T2 player is forced to go T4 to counter enemy armor it weakens the power of T2. The Armored Car player is all about producing the unit specific counter units. He is responsible for getting the direct counter units for whatever the enemy is using. For example: mass elite infantry is countered by the Panzer IV.

Such logic as you indicated follows the notion that two tiers for each player would be the most efficient method. The reality is, three tiers for each player optimizes the power of Panzer Elite while minimizing the teching costs. In a more broad sense:

T1-T3-T4: The eventual MP44 blobbing player late-game. He will have all the tools he needs for an effective MP44 blob. While one can argue that you can go just T1-T3 and T4 later, T4 gives the counter options (AT-HTs) right away. How often have you gotten the marder upgrade and had no fuel for a marder?

T2-T3-T4: While the T4 comes much later, it is the perfect teching path to panthers. This player won't really need larger squad sizes as he will be choosing the Luftwaffe doctrine and getting Fallschirmjäger eventually. Panzergrenadiers will eventually be phased out of production because in the long term, G43 and shreck squads cost too much to reinforce. Fallschirmjäger on the other hand are only 37Manpower a reiforcement (as opposed to 45 Manpower for a Panzergrenadier).

While T2-T4 and T1-T3 seem optimal, one must thing about the mid/late-game when playing when using this strategy. We designed this strategy in order to pack a punch after the enemy has gotten out his MP44s , to hit the British T2 hard. Marders are rather inefficient and this strategy, you can get by without them (thus maximizing your profit). Giving one player all the AT power (T2-T4, shrecks and AT-HTs, the T3 player will have at most one marder by light vehicle spam time), you make one player handle to much. By making one person incharge of immobilizing and one incharge of killing, you optimize your economy of force.
Closing remarks

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-88721-1269404145.jpg

Remember, this is only a basic outline of the build order and overall strategy. Many of the finer details have been left out; some because they are beyond the scope of the guide or others as a matter of selfish super secrecy. The main goal of this guide is to provide an outline that could be filled based upon the situation, players, or map. So have fun, and go experiment. Dual Panzer Elite is a very difficult strategy, but extremely rewarding as well.

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itaperuna_coh
25/03/2010, 12:52
essa strats é violenta...
boa mesmo
e linda a foto do jadg !
boa soca

nigo
25/03/2010, 20:05
eu e o soca tentamos algumas vezes essa strat, mas sempre perdiamos com ela :(

SuperSoca
25/03/2010, 20:58
eu e o soca tentamos algumas vezes essa strat, mas sempre perdiamos com ela :(

n n nigo, essa strat é nova a gente n usou ela não.

bauru1
25/03/2010, 21:18
e o cara que escreveu ainda falou que tem alguns detalhes importantes que ele não revelou:

"Many of the finer details have been left out; some because they are beyond the scope of the guide or others as a matter of selfish super secrecy."

nigo
25/03/2010, 21:30
n n nigo, essa strat é nova a gente n usou ela não.


eu quis dizer dual panzer

itaperuna_coh
26/03/2010, 00:23
cara...essa strat´s é mt divertida....agora vou falar a verdade..nao animo de jogar x2 se nao for com amigos...só dá maphack e drophack
só hj reportei 2
e ainda ter que aguentar o chuuu chorão
hahahahahahha

BobCuspe
26/03/2010, 00:54
cara, eu tenho jogado 2x2 e 1x1 e não tomo drop hack nem map hack. devo ser sortudo.

gilber27
26/03/2010, 01:24
cara, eu tenho jogado 2x2 e 1x1 e não tomo drop hack nem map hack. devo ser sortudo.

sim vc é sortudo!tb joga CoH com uma ferradura e um trevo de 4 folhas do lado do teclado...:angel:

Rks-HoF
29/03/2010, 13:41
oq é esse map hack?!
esse não tinha ouvido falar ainda.. conheço o drophack

Chacineiro
29/03/2010, 14:04
Maphack realmente tá foda.

Muito neguinho onisciente pro meu gosto ultimamente.

Chacineiro
29/03/2010, 14:09
Ah e não é por nada, sei que é chato sugerir isso e que confio em grande parte dos membros da comunidade BR mas deviamos forçar a utilização daquele programa que tira screens da tela no campeonato.

Pra tudo correr da maneira mais limpa possível.

BobCuspe
29/03/2010, 14:16
Eu também tinha pensado nisso. Mas aquele programa gera um arquivo específico que não temos como ler. Infelizmente (e felizmente) quem fez o programa não liberou o código ou algum outro programa que nos permita ler os dados gerados. Sem ele, não temos como saber se alguém usou de safadeza. Mas por outro lado, sem acesso às informações, o anti-cheat fica garantido e funcional.

Chacineiro
29/03/2010, 14:28
Bob, no CS usavamos um programa chamado Octinium, e era bem tranquilo de fazer rodar e de ver as screens.

Vale a pena ver se rola no CoH, não tem porque não funcionar na minha opinião, pois é um programa bem simples.

Vai aí o link de um site que tem pra galera testar: http://www.projetocs.com.br/index.php/Octinium (http://www.projetocs.com.br/index.php/Octinium)

Só tem que ver se realmente funciona porque pelo que eu lembro tira screen só do centro da tela, porém se tiver uma maneira de configurar pra pegar a tela toda ia ser show.

Trufelli
29/04/2010, 17:03
Bem treinada esta tatica seria muito boa!

Mas requer tempo e treino!