Ver Versão Completa : The SayNoToKlauss Strategy (US vs PE)

08/04/2010, 15:40
Esse guia já tem um tempinho, é o básico que se tem que saber contra PE, mas além disso tem muitos conceitos interessantes além de ser engraçado. :)


The SayNoToKlaus strategy is an American strategy used against the PE. It relies on stall tactics, harassment, and quick vehicles to gain map dominance in the mid game and eventually starve your opponent of resources.

Pros of this strategy

When done right, it's extremely hard to counter. The more resources the PE player puts into chasing off your riflemen, the less they're able to counter your mid game.
Armored Car rushes aren't so bad, actually.
Its the damn panzer elite. You got a better idea?

Cons of this strategy

It requires quite a bit of foresight on where your opponent is going. If you guess wrong too many times, you may be in for a rough game.
The PE are, sadly, still a bit too powerful in this patch. This strategy minimizes the PE's strong aspects and tries to take pot shots at the cracks in their armor, but I'd have to figure that the PE are still going to have the upper hand quite a lot of the time.
This strategy requires a good bit if micromanagement, including reversing vehicles and circle strafing. If you're just starting out, or you micro worse than 12azor, this strategy might not be for you.

For now, I want you to forget everything you've ever known about the American vs Wehrmacht match up. Your rifles are no longer flankers. Your vanilla infantry is no longer better than his vanilla infantry. Your rifle upgrades are not the heart and soul of your early game teching. Got that out of your system? Good. From now on, your rifles are strictly for capping, harassing, and support. They're not for fighting. You are going to lose every early game skirmish you have unless you massively outnumber his troops. But, you're still going to win the resource war. How? Read on.


Two Engineer Start

This part is non-negotiable. You need two Engineers. The more capping power you have the better, and one Engineer just isn't going to cut it. The first one immediately builds a barracks, the second one goes to cap as soon as he pops out. Build the barracks towards the edge of your base, so your new units are able to get onto the field a second or two earlier.

Three Rifles

You make 3 Riflemen. No more. No less. Why? 2 isn't enough. 2 Riflemen would leave you with 4 cappers and and you'd be floating quite a bit of manpower. 4 Rifles drains your economy a little bit too much. 3 seems to be the right number, and if everything goes well, you'll be able to tech immediately after your 3rd Rifle is just getting out onto the field. If you're unable to tech up after your 3rd Rifle, it may be best to just float manpower until your motor pool goes up, so you'll have a little extra manpower for more AT-guns. If on the off chance that you've been starved of fuel completely, you can consider making another rifle squad, but at this point you've probably lost the game already.

This is my Rifle, this is my gun
This is for fighting, this if for fun

Your Rifles and your Engineers are, simply put, not for fighting. Your rifles cap at an amazing 1.5 speed while Panzer Grenadiers cap at a measly .75 rate. However, Panzer Grenadiers come on the field earlier, and they generally have more infantry than you. You're not going to win large engagements, especially if they have infantry Half tracks on the field. Panzer Grenadiers, in large numbers, are virtually impossible for Rifles to beat, which means you should be avoiding combat.

For the next few examples, I'm going to use Langres as an example. Take a look at the map. The 'harass able' fuel points are indicated with yellow arrows.


Now, your goal should be to always control at least one of them, and control two or three if you get the opportunity. But, like I said, you're going to lose the early game fights. If you start in the north, you should try to control fuel point one, and harass between points 2 and 3. What does this mean? It means send a Rifle squad or two over to Fuel Point 2, and when his army arrives to drive you off, retreat that unit and send another Rifle squad over to fuel point 3. Because your Rifles have a ridiculously high capping speed, you can often decap a point and then cap it for yourself before his army gets there. If you've sent two Rifle squads to a point, and he only sends 1 PG squad, this may be the only time you want to actually engage him. Stop capping and send both rifle squads right on top of his PG squad, which will kill it or force it to retreat, then go back to capping.

Now, if you're in the south, you may have a slightly harder time harassing. Generally, you'll control fuel point 2 throughout the game, and fuel point 3 will be contested. So what you need to do is to create a distraction. Sending 2 Rifle squads and an Engineer squad to the medium munitions point to the west of his strategy point (or to the strategy point itself!) will draw his army to that side, leaving you free to slip a Rifle squad around back and decap fuel point number 1. The important thing to remember is to put your units in green cover, and try to stall the PE for a bit before retreating. Wait until your Rifle squads are down to 2 or 3 men before running, and you'll have stalled him long enough to take his fuel. Like I said before, the early game isn't about fighting him, its about getting fuel.

If he gets the wise idea of taking your strategy point to cut you off, you really can't fight him. Go to the other side of the map and start decapping as much as you can. When his army packs up and leaves your strategy point, move in to retake it. You may have to hold 2 Rifle squads back just in case he leaves a G43 squad watching your point, and 2 Rifle squads can easily beat a G43 squad.

And waaaaiting is the hardest part

Harassment alone probably isn't going to be enough. You need to stall your opponent with your Rifles, more commonly called riflestall. For the most part, killing infantry Half tracks with vanilla Rifles is completely out of the question. But, you can stall them, doing nothing more but surviving until your M8 hits the field. How do you do that? Get your rifles in good, reliable green cover. I do not mean haystacks. Units jump out from behind haystack cover and get picked off. I'm talking about long stone walls, or your best bet, good buildings. A rifle squad in a building takes almost no damage from an Infantry Half track, and very little from vanilla Panzer Grenadier squads.


While you're definitely going to lose this battle, its just one more step to winning the war. Keep those rifles in there until they get low, and then get out and run. Meanwhile, the rest of your Riflemen should be all over the map claiming fuel. Remember, the Rifles are just out there to cap points and keep you from getting driven off the map.


Fuel is your #1 priority and don't forget it. However, most maps include 'safe' munitions points that you can easily cap with your Engineers early in the game. While your main goal is to get an M8 out early, you have to upgrade that thing, so you cant completely ignore munitions. You shouldn't be getting grenades, or flamethrowers (unless you're forced into a situation where you have to fight), or laying more than 1 or 2 mines, so your munitions stockpile is generally untouched until you purchase armor skirts for your first M8.

Early Game Objectives

Control as much fuel as possible
Harass Harass Harass. Never stop capping.
Run from every fight you cant win, or stall them as long as possible by placing units in buildings or green cover


First things first, you should build your Supply Yard as soon as you get 50 fuel, and your Motor Pool as soon as you get the next 45 fuel. Chances are, you're either seeing infantry Half tracks or Armored cars on the field. You fight them both the same way - either run to the nearest cover/building, or run back to your base.

Now, as your Motor Pool finishes building, look at how much fuel you have. If you're anywhere near 30 fuel, just wait for it and then build an M8. If you've been pushed off the map completely, which isn't uncommon, and you don't have enough fuel for an M8, make an AT gun (you should be able to afford an M8 shortly thereafter). When your M8 comes out don't forget to upgrade armor skirts and the gunner on top, in that order. You have to immediately watch out for a few things.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/GeneralPattonJr/building_allied_mines.png Teller Mines.
One teller mine can kill an M8. If you're not sure of your opponents doctrine, or you know he's tank hunters, you have to watch out for these. Giving one of your Engineer squads a minesweeper is definitely a great idea, and not running your M8 into those 'obvious hot spots' is a wise choice as well.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/GeneralPattonJr/vehicle_pnze_halftrack_sniper.png AT-HTs
These things are the biggest fly in the soup you can face. If you charge your M8 in unsupported, this can easily immobilize your M8 and kill it, by itself, which is why you have to watch the hell out for these things. If you see one, immediately reverse your M8 away from it and get back to your support units. Once you get AT gun support, you'll be able to use your M8s a little more liberally, as AT guns can easily chase away AT-HTs and give your engineers a window to repair them.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/GeneralPattonJr/vehicle_pnze_marder_iii.pngThe Marder
If he has a Marder up by the time your M8 pops out, he either straight teched to it, or you sure lost the fuel war. One Marder, by itself, is very easy to counter. Use your M8 to circle it, constantly staying out of its very narrow firing arc, as seen here;


As your M8 hits the field, your whole game plan shifts. You should still be trying to outcap your opponent, but you may very well have the ability to force your opponent off the map. If he is unable to immediately counter your M8, move to his remaining fuel points and decap them, using the M8 to chase away infantry, infantry Half tracks, or Armored cars. Your engineers no longer become cappers, but emergency repair crews. Keep your engineers about a screen away from your M8, so if it becomes immobilized by an AT-HT, you can send them in to try to repair the engine damage before you lose the M8.

However, if your opponent has the appropriate counters on the field, you need to eliminate the threat first, and then go after his fuel. Marders can be circled, but AT-HTs need to be taken out by luring them into the firing arc of your AT gun. Now for some good news. His infantry is basically useless now. Unless he's using the AT-HT + AT grenade combo, he has no infantry that can reliably damage your M8. If you keep your M8 at a distance, supported by an AT gun, schrecks simply aren't accurate enough. Schrecks in infantry Half tracks need to be shot down by AT guns. For the most part, your Riflemen no longer engage the enemy, just staying behind to cap and maybe chase off a Kettenkrad.

The mid game build order
M8 - AT gun - M8 - AT gun - M8

While this build order isn't set in stone, it provides you with great mobility and even better anti-tank power. Your M8s are the lifeblood of your army. They're able to hop from skirmish to skirmish, and are very effective against not only light vehicles, but infantry as well. The only PE non-doctrinal units they cannot fight are panthers and Panzer 4s, and they should not engage AT-HTs unsupported. Your M8s choose when and where to engage the enemy, and although a Marder can knock them silly if one gets stranded, they're able to out maneuver most PE units and get to safety if things go sour.

Once you get a team of 2 M8s (and an AT gun) up, you can use them a little bit more freely, taking a few more chances, due to AT gun support. Don't do anything stupid, but generally you should be aiming to take out unsupported Marders by circling them, or using an M8 + AT gun combo to knock them out. In this situation, you should use your riflemen as protectors of your AT gun. Losing a 57mm AT gun to a few Panzer Grenadiers can really hurt you, so don't let those greedy krauts get their hands on your anti-tank weaponry.

Now, hopefully, you have the upper hand, and you can begin taking their fuel. Marders have a fairly steep fuel cost, and you want to deny them the ability to make panthers or pz4s, so keep harassing their fuel, and keeping your army mobile. If you can catch a pack of Marders 'on the move,' get in there with your M8s and start circling them.

As for resource management, you want every M8 to have armor skirts, and as many .50 caliber gunners on top as you can afford. If you have the choice of armor skirts or a gunner, always always always go with the armor skirts. You still shouldn't be spending munitions on things like grenades or flamethrowers, so you should have enough munitions to get armor skirts, at the very minimum. As you gain more and more map control, you should have a much better munitions income.

Choosing a Doctrine

All three American doctrines work pretty well with this strategy. Generally around this time is when you want to pick a doctrine. Don't pick a doctrine until you're actually going to benefit from it. Choosing Airborne but not calling in Airborne Infantry generally doesn't help you in any way, and later on you may be regretting it as Armor would have been a better choice. Each one works 'best' in different scenarios:


I find myself selecting Infantry the most, it seems. Get Rangers ASAP, and then move down the right hand side, picking up offmap and onmap artillery. If your opponent is trying to use multiple Marders to lock down an area, and you don't think your M8s can get in there without taking heavy casualties, Rangers might be your best bet. Keep in mind that even un-upgraded Rangers still have their most useful attributes; Bazookas and their Elite Armor. They can, at the very least, chase off Marders and let your M8s get in to do some damage. Bazookas also seem to make contact with Armored Cars more often, rather than 'phasing through' them like recoil less Rifles have a tendency to do.

Later in the game, if he's felt the need to clump up his Marders, and he has so much support around them that your Rangers aren't able to clear them out, you have the backup option of offmap artillery. Onmap artillery, is fairly expensive, and I wouldn't recommend building more than one 105mm Howitzer, but if you do get it up you can use it to blast Marder groups, or anything else that's clumped up.


Airborne is a solid choice if your opponent has gone T4 and is relying on AT-HTs for his Anti-Tank needs. Why is it better than infantry in this situation? Because if your opponent manages to immobilize one of your M8s and you don't have immediate support on it, you can air drop a 57mm AT gun in to save your M8. Recoil less Rifles also work very well against AT-HTs, and Airborne Infantry reinforces on the field..

Its important to go straight down the left-hand-side of Airborne. Don't be tempted to get strafing runs, because infantry generally isn't a threat to this strategy and you'll rarely be floating any extra munitions. Those airdropped AT guns can really save your ass if you're in a pinch, and later on, the supply drops not only fuel your munitions supply, but give you cheap .30 cals you can use to hold VP points late in the game.

Keep in mind that recoil less rifles have a tendency to 'phase through' Armored Cars and do no damage to them, so you cant rely on them to fend off armored cars. Your M8s and AT guns should be doing the jobs for you.


What's this? Armor? In a real strategy guide? Well folks, the right hand side of armor is a real kick in the groin to PE. Raid gives your light armor the ability to go harass points, which just extends onto the strategy of the early game. While Allied War Machine is far too expensive for what you'd get in return on this strategy, the Calliope is probably the best Anti-PE unit the Americans can field. It does great damage to light vehicles and absolutely murders infantry. However, it comes in late game, so there are only a few times when I would say Armor is the best doctrine.

You've taken control of the map by the mid game and he has very few AT units up. You've been able to cut his fuel supply off.
You're confident enough in your micro to be able to eliminate Marders and/or AT-HTs with only M8s, Riflemen, and AT guns.
You've collected quite a few command points (I'd say in the area of 5 or 6) and the game is still fairly even.

As you can see, Armor isn't going to really be a viable option every game. There will be many games where, unfortunately, you're going to need some sort of Elite Infantry AT weapon.

As for using your calliope, its generally best to not just randomly fire into the darkness. Wait until you see a juicy target and let loose. Everything he has will have to retreat or get bashed over and over by rockets. That part is important - don't fire until you see their blob.

The mid game is generally where the game is won or lost. Granted, some games will extend into the late game and you may see units like Jagdpanthers or 88s, but for the most part, this strategy will either fail spectacularly or dominate during the mid game. It all comes down to your micro, your planning, and how many of his vehicles you can pick off without losing your own.


One of the most common counters to this strategy is, of course, Panzerschrecks. This is, of course, the worst counter possible. Schreck accuracy at range is horrible, and hitting a moving M8 with a Panzerschreck is rare. Keep your M8s moving and retreat and repair ones that get low. Panzerschrecks inside an Infantry Half track are a bit more dangerous, which is why you need that AT gun watching your M8's back.

Now, if he goes crazy and makes like 12 Schreck squads, don't panic. Make a Quad, and just keep that thing at range. One Quad .50 can easily kite Schrecks, and if it doesn't get hammered by an AT-HT or Marder, it can easily suppress/pin a pretty big blob of Schrecks and nullify them all. Watch out for flanks, however, because if they can get up close, your Quad doesn't last very long at all. Keep in mind that the quad isn't so hot against anything other than Schreck'd grenadiers, so if your opponent already has AT-HTs/Marders on the field, don't even think about making one.

Schrecks, are, however, somewhat useful when used as a support weapon. A Marder with 2 Schrecks watching its back can sometimes be a pretty deadly threat to your M8s, so you may have to come up with some quick thinking on the fly. You may have to bring your riflemen with you, just to chase off any Panzer Grenadiers.

Mid Game Objectives

Get a couple m8's out on the field and start causing some havoc.
Reduce his fuel income.
Keep your M8s alive!
Shift the balance of power to your side. The mid game is where these games are normally won or lost.


Unfortunately, this game doesn't gain much in the late game, unless you've gone armor and you have access to calliopes. Sherman's don't offer you that much more than M8s, and they're somewhat pricey. If you have control of the game, feel free to make a Tank Depot, but generally, in a close game, M8s, Elite Infantry, or AT guns will pay off more than a Tank Depot.

For the most part, the late game is just an extension of the mid game. You should be building up AT guns, keeping your number of M8s are around 3, and have either a calliope or 2 to 3 squads of elite infantry. For the most part, the PE doesn't get anything fancier towards the end game, either. Things like Hetzers get chased off by AT guns. A Hummel may prove to be a bit of a pain in the ass, but if you spread your AT guns out and watch what you're doing, you should be fine. 88s can be cleared out with a calliope or artillery, or recoil less Rifles in a pinch. The Jagdpanther is really the only threat late game.

Jagdpanthers aren't actually as bad as you'd think with this strategy. Although they do come in for nothing up front, you generally should have more than 2 AT guns on field and be able to fend it off, if not outright kill it. Keep in mind that you can 'jam it' with an M8. If your jag approaches your AT guns, you can send an M8 to the back of his Jag, so when he tries to reverse, he ends up colliding with your M8 and playing bumper cars until the vehicle AI can figure out how to get around it. This can be seen here;


Keep in mind that you'll probably lose the M8 to something, so you should only do this to prevent a retreat if the Jag is in danger of dying. If you do kill it, immediately kill the shell it leaves, because fighting off two Jags is NOT something anyone should ever have to do in a 1v1.

Late Game Objectives

Keep your AT guns alive.
Fend off any late game units like Jagdpanthers
Hopefully win through a war where he's losing units and you're not.
Keep your opponent in a constant state of disarray. If he can lock down the field with 4 Marders, you're in trouble.

Closing Thoughts

Overall, I think you're still fighting an uphill battle with the PE. This strategy plays to their weaknesses, but they still are the stronger faction in my eyes. They're getting hit with the nerf bat next patch, which will only help this strategy, but until then, good luck. This strategy really shines if you have good micro, but fails miserably if you don't, so if you don't get it to work because you keep losing M8s, you may need to work on your M8 micro.

As always, good luck, have fun, and remember, it's just a game.