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Ver Versão Completa : estrategia para 2x2



rafaelll-monteiro
22/03/2011, 13:23
Galera joguei 3 partidas 2x2 hoje, e tomei 3 surras:(.
Gostaria de saber qual é a manha do 2x2, quais estrategias vcs usam?
eu jogo de americano:up:

SuperSoca
22/03/2011, 14:31
tem várias... não existe estratégia que vença tudo que é situação.
O bom é tu apreender pelo menos umas 3 strats de 1v1. Outra: estamos falando de AT ou random? AT tu vai poder combinar strats elaboradas, random é dançar conforme a música... quando tem música... a não ser que tu tenha sorte e pegue um parceiro bom OU inteligente.

Mas lá vai uma classica. 2 US, um caga rifles, sticky, bars, nades, motor pool, o outro só caga rifles sem up + mete 2 flamer e vai pra tank depot. Pode fazer o wsc antes tb.
Olha replays de 2v2 do pessoal mais experiente.

Yancha
23/03/2011, 15:54
Vc ta que lvl rafaelll-monteiro?

rafaelll-monteiro
24/03/2011, 12:44
no 1x1 sou lv 6
no 2x2 sou lv 1:(

Yancha
24/03/2011, 17:53
2x2 lvl 1 to e 1x1 lvl 5 estamos de acordo(nos lvls):up:Podiamos combinar um dia:cley:

SuperSoca
24/03/2011, 18:24
É uma boa o pessoal de nível semelhante se juntar pra jogar por diversos fatores, o principal é que como vcs estão no mesmo nível, o desenvolvimento e as dificuldades vão ser as mesmas, por isso é mais fácil conseguir apreender os counters das coisas, além do mais ninguém se frustra com ninguém e o jogo fica mais legau.

Quer ver, baseado no nível que vcs estão, eu aposto que vocês tem uma baita dificuldade de tirar uma MG de algum lugar com outro método que não seja um sniper. Estou certo ou errado?

Yancha
24/03/2011, 18:45
na verdade pra tirar a mg do lugar eu faço como russo mando uma cambada!!(so que separados n tudo junto)quem chega grenade ou fica do ladinho pra n morre :B bom as vezes o mg da retreat outras....morre..outrs eu morro é arriscado por isso é mais facil bm usa morteiro se for early e ela estiver em casa é cehga pelos 2 ventos e ficar em um lugar sem janelas de preferencia...buuuuuuuum grenade(foi u d+)

Yancha
25/03/2011, 06:45
Se bem que é mais facil sniper

SuperSoca
25/03/2011, 09:56
Uma vez discutimos isso aqui no fórum faz muito tempo. Normalmente por volta do nível 10 jogando de US é que os jogadores aprendem a flankear com eficiência de fato. Saber flankear é como se fosse um divisor de águas, quem aprende a flankear é porque está entendendo um dos 3 principais fundamento do CoH que o torna um jogo único e revolucionáro, que é justamente o flanking/supress. Normalmente isso se aprende por volta do nível 10 (justamente tu consegue chegar a nível 10 porque já entendeu como funciona a coisa).

Eu sempre considero os jogadores de nível 10 ou superior jogadores que já tem um grande entendimento do game e se destacam dos demais. O nível 10 também pode-se dizer que é o marco do 50% de vítórias/derrotas. O jogador que está no nível 10 e subindo é um jogador que já tem 50% de vitórias e está começando a ganhar mais do que perder, se destaca dos demais.

Estude como o pessoal faz os flankings, como coordena cada um dos esquadrões e vcs vão ver que o nível de jogo de vcs vai subir absurdamente.

Yancha
25/03/2011, 13:26
I agreee

Viclamota
25/03/2011, 13:31
eu to no mesmo lvl que vocês joguei muito aquele lixo do coho mais aqui o jogo é completamente diferente e nem tento jogar como jogava la, to tentando aprender a jogar de novo no vanilla e ta dificil, vejo uns 3 replays por dia e meu jogo no x1 ta desenvolvendo mais no 2x2 é complicado, me adicionem no steam " Rocha [BP1S1] "

Yancha
25/03/2011, 15:18
vou tentar adicionar la sim quem sabe um dia desses jogamos qual facçao vc usa?

meu nome no steam é comprido e idiota voce vai ver tem meu nome junto (yan)

Adicionado após 14 minutes:

Para qualquer coisa vou botar uma "strat" de 2p mais pra isso tenque combinar certinho antes de jogar;)

I (OnkelSam) posted this strategy outline at the internal clan forums of Company of Clowns a week ago for discussion. It's nothing too unconventional, the strategy is designed around Armour Company and take note that it's based on the Playtest Beta changes. The idea behind it is to flood the battlefield with impact units as quickly as possible and therefore encourage very aggressive playstyle from the American players right from the beginning, which is the US faction's strong side in my opinion. Another thing to mention is that this strategy, like all other team based strats, shines and falls with teamwork because it will rely on the ability to get the optimum usage out of your Company unit & ability synergies for each player.



US 1:

Build Order:
1 Engineer Start
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265137.png -> 4x http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265731.png -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265752.png

After this it gets slightly situational.

If you fight against the Panzer Elite (PE) and they go for many early vehicles then you will upgrade to stickies right after BARs
If you don't see many vehicles, but Panzer Grenadier (PG) spam instead or you are facing 2xWerhmacht, then you build a Supply Depot (SD) after you get BARs. The reason is for this is that you will rely on tons of infantry for a long period, which hurts your upkeep quite a lot. The SD itself already reduces your upkeep by 25%, so the first reason you want to get it fast is that the investment pays back as soon as possible. The other reason is that it makes you more flexible if the situation needs a tech to T3 or T4 quickly. And last, but not least, you gain veterancy faster with each upgrade (in Beta).
If you still don't need stickies after that you have built the SD. And if you also don't face MG spam or other situations that require grenades desperately then you invest into SD upgrade 1, for the same upkeep saving reason. You will go for Rangers later, so you need the lowest upkeep you can get.
If at any stage after BARs you are in a situation where you are left with several wounded riflemen, then build a triage center first. Keeping your Riflemen alive is crucial because you need the veterancy later in the game.

When you have gone through this decision-tree then you upgrade what is left, so that in the end you have
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265841.png, http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265854.png, http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265394.png + http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229266969.png, http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265409.png

Optional:
The aggressive playstyle may make it worthy to build a medic station after your 4th rifle. You should have the spare Manpower since you didn't build a second Engineers, but if you build a medic tent, then supply depot + upgrade is even more crucial! This might be particularly good against PE opponents, where it is hard to avoid taking quite some individual casualties against G43s, fast Armored Cars (ACs), and MP44s.

Company Choice:
-> Infantry Company

Stack your first 3 CPs and then decide depending on the current situation.

If you are playing against PE players that make heavy use of Vehicles, then you go for Rangers.
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265987.png -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229266003.png
Call in one Ranger squad, or if you REALLY need it call in two, but never more than that. Reinforce costs of 45MP per Ranger and an insane upkeep value will hurt your manpower income otherwise. Thompsons are also a nice upgrade if you have the munitions because they drastically increase the Ranger's AI power. But keep that 45MP reinforce cost in mind and don't run them blindly into every infantry you see that might focus fire them down to just a few squad members. They are still meant as a support unit.
If you are playing against Wehrmacht (WM) players that like to dig in, invest your CPs into "Defensive Operations" and go for off-map arty and after that the on-map howitzer.
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265458.png -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265088.png -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265469.png
Remember to make use of Defensive Operations with your Riflemen. Like I initially said you will play very aggressively in the beginning, so secure your areas with mines and make it harder for your opponent to take back territory or to cause engine damage on vehicles that you can finish off then. Also build sandbags for your partners machine guns (MG) or your riflemen (sandbags+wire give green cover to only one direction). But keep 150 ammo saved up to be able to use off-map arty when you need it on bunkers or other stationary defenses.

If you went for Rangers first, then go right-hand side after that. Don't bother with Off Map Combat Group.


->Airbourne Company

I personally think Infantry is the more flexible doctrine choice rather than Airbourne because of the useless Strafing run in the Beta and artillery being more effective in taking out defensive positions. Also, Rangers with Thompsons hold more AI power than Paratroopers.
On the other hand Airbourne still holds some advantages that suit the playstyle of US player 1 and therefore might keep it as an option.

In general I suggest to go straight left-hand side all of the time, again because Strafing run is useless now. Also remember PE vehicles are weaker now so that Riflemen/Rangers out of cover should be able to deal with them most of the time, which makes it not strongly necessary to get Recoilless Rifles. So I would suggest to only go for Airbourne if you really need those Paratroopers against many vehicles or if you fear a lot of WM armour.

First 2 CP -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229451327.png
Only get them if you have the munitions to upgrade Recoilless Rifles. Two advantages of Recoilless Rifles over Bazookas are their increased accuracy and better penetration. Therefore they are better in fighting WM tanks, which are harder to penetrate.

next 2 CP -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229451842.png
This ability suits player US1 quite well because he will most likely have no Motorpool on his own at that stage of the game, where this ability gets available. So if there are more anti-tank (AT) guns needed than US2 is able to field at that moment you can still get them from the sky. But in general, if you plan ahead you should be able to save those extra 40mp that they cost compared to the AT gun build in the Motorpool.

next 2CP -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229452344.png
Another ability that suits US player 1 because it gives access to HMGs and Mortars, without the need of a back-tech to Weapon Support Center. In addition it gives +100 ammo and +40 fuel at the cost of 100MP.
Later in the game it might be an option to let US player 2 take the munitions and fuel, if he needs it for AWM, field repairs and tanks. The Strafing run is not worth to spend ammo on anyway.

optional:
1 CP http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229452441.png
If at any stage you plan an offensive and have no idea what the opponent is doing or if you don't know where the opponents Pak anti-tank guns are located before you engage your M8/tanks, then it might be a good idea to invest 1 CP into the Recon Run.
Its also a good option if you have problems with enemy snipers. If you have your own counter sniper available, but no spotting unit, then you can use the recon run to uncloak the enemy sniper.





US 2:

Build Order:
2 Engineer Start
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265118.png-> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265542.png -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265560.png -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265542.png -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265560.png


If you play against 2xPE then I would suggest to go HMG, HMG, Sniper, Sniper because if your opponent spams PGs then it's hard to prevent a flank with just only one HMG.


-> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265394.png -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265379.png
Next step is to rush for Motorpool. If you don't have the fuel to build Motorpool yet then use your manpower to build an observation post (OP) on a fuel point. It will also be an investment for the future, because the goal is to go Tank Depot later in the game. If you had a bad start and lost a unit, then you better replace that unit instead of building the OP, but in general you want to get your Motor Pool up as soon as possible.

Selecting "fast deployment" with your first CP is a key element to this strategy, which is why I already say it here. This should enable you to get out an M8, Quad and AT gun very quick.
The order in which you build those 3 units in general should be
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229266467.png -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229266501.png+http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229266518.png -> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265584.png
Just only, if you had a bad start or you desperately need AT guns against WM Tier 3, Marders or whatever, then you can switch the Quad with an AT gun first. But remember that the Quad in Beta got buffed against Infantry and it also owns PE light vehicles, so in general I think a quick Quad, combined with M8 can have a greater impact at that time. It also drastically increases your field presence, cause US1's Riflemen can stay in the field to reinforce instead of retreat.

After that you got these 3 units out very quick you have to decide, if you need more AT guns, or otherwise invest into an OP on fuel right now, for a later tech to Tank Depot (TD). M10's range increase in combination with a spotter unit is nice, and also Shermans with 76mm upgrade are worth a consideration because they don't lose AI power anymore and buff your Pershing as well. Combined with fast deployment it's also quite easy to build TD units in an acceptable speed. Since Marders sight range was decreased and the 25% damage bonus was removed, maybe the survivability of TD units is better now. Field repairs and AWM should help with that subject too.

Optional:
At some point during the game after you got your Motorpool units out you might have plenty of munitions. It might be helpful to get out 1-2 additional engineers and upgrade them with flamers. They might help to clear defensive axis positions and since your army will mainly consist of vehicles some additional repairs might be good too.

Company Choice:
-> Armour company

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265505.png
Like i already mentioned, the first CP goes into "fast deployment" to rush out that M8-Quad-AT-impact-package

After that initial investment i would suggest to stack your following CP's. Depending on the playstyle of your opponents you can choose whats better after this.

If you are playing against players, who like to blob lots of infantry, or, if you run against a wall of Marders, PAKs etc. then i would suggest to go for Calliopes.
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265425.png
They are very good in killing PE vehicles, except the heavy ones, and they are also much easier to use against blobs of Infantry than On Map Howitzers etc.
If you play against aggressive opponents and if there are not too many Marders around, then I would suggest to try out the Pershing.
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-70030-1229265488.png
It was made stronger in Beta, especially with the increased splash damage possibly making it easier for it to gain veterancy quickly.


Playstyle:

Like I said in the beginning, you will need good teamplay to make this strategy work. US1 will mainly have infantry, while US2 will mainly have stationary weapon teams and vehicles. So your two armies will have to overlap. This strategy relies on early field presence so you want to play very aggressively and overwhelm your opponents in the beginning.

One engineer start gives you access to two rifles when your opponent has most likely just one squad, so you can try to flank his first MG or at least keep him under pressure and cap the area behind. In the best scenario you will catch him with your early M8-Quad combo, while he still has no counter. But even if this doesn't work you should at least secure your territory with mines and sandbag/wire, so that he will have problems to advance.

Adicionado após 9 minutes:

SE alguem quer ir comigo no 2x2 to disponivel esse fianl de semana(acho)

rafaelll-monteiro
25/03/2011, 15:54
2x2 lvl 1 to e 1x1 lvl 5 estamos de acordo(nos lvls):up:Podiamos combinar um dia:cley:

jogo quase todos os dias, so me procurar na sala br, uso o msm nome no jogo.
qual seu nick no jogo?

Yancha
25/03/2011, 16:08
yanmagnus mas as vezes to de smurf que eh smurfito eu acabei de joga 2x2 random teho replay aqui foi um gg ganhei e esse eh o unico jeito de ganhar um 2x2 random conversando.Vou postar nos replays olha la

Sgtyoda
25/03/2011, 17:21
Vocês estão muito presos a estratégias, tem um mundo lindo de possibilidades lá fora :lol:

Yancha
25/03/2011, 17:45
So postei para ter uma base...:B

rafaelll-monteiro
25/03/2011, 17:51
É uma boa o pessoal de nível semelhante se juntar pra jogar por diversos fatores, o principal é que como vcs estão no mesmo nível, o desenvolvimento e as dificuldades vão ser as mesmas, por isso é mais fácil conseguir apreender os counters das coisas, além do mais ninguém se frustra com ninguém e o jogo fica mais legau.

Quer ver, baseado no nível que vcs estão, eu aposto que vocês tem uma baita dificuldade de tirar uma MG de algum lugar com outro método que não seja um sniper. Estou certo ou errado?

E qual seria a melhor maneira de matar uma mg?

Yancha
25/03/2011, 18:19
Tem varias morteiro ,sniper, spam de rifle....

GeneralRodrigues
26/03/2011, 11:46
pow, atualização demorada pra caramba do beta pelo steam heim!! já vi que vai ser o sábado todo pra baixar, comecei agora, inté!

SuperSoca
26/03/2011, 11:53
spam de rifle....

Spam não, flanking.

Se tu fizer spam e simplesmente mandar na mg não vai dar certo ou vai perder tropa demais.

Yancha
26/03/2011, 12:34
Valeu pela correção soca:up:

Por falar em atualização adorei o egletons mapa bom com varias posi. de mg e só um fuel alto pra focar